This is where were headed. People vote in a president, house and senate who "promise to cut and reduce taxes" and what are they doing? They are going to have us, the taxpayer, pay for detroit's screw ups. Just like we did with the stock market bailout. Why dosen't the federal government just admit that the financial bailout failed and say this one will fail all also. I have a solution, Ford, GM and Chrysler should really stop, watch and see why they are in such a mess. They should really remember why they are called "the big three." If they don't lower ther car prices, so that people can "afford" them, if they don't make vehicles that can get over 30mpg or better, (same with there trucks), if they don't get on the ban wagon of alternative fuels and hybrids that can "match thier competitors," then they will not remain the big three. Put it this way Detroit, you were the "Giants" of this country, and face it Jack is chopping down your beanstalk if you don't get your act together. If Toyota and BMW and all the other foreign companies, who are doing so well here, are suceesful, then Detroit knows what the problem is and they don't need a bailout to fix the problem.

This is a reply to Pete M. Patchen's message:

"The bailout will not help the car makers but it would sure help Obama and the unions that he owes a favor too. Blackmail comes in different forms. I wonder when the politicians going to bailout us.

In the town I live in we have lost three companies and close to 5000 people laid off. One of the companies is going overseas. That you liberals for voting for the fraud of a president."

How can you blame Obama and "Liberals" for three companies in your area shutting down?  If anything you should blame Bush.  Where were you the last 8 years?  You do realize that congress was run by conservatives for 6 of those years right?  Stop watching Fox news, stop listening to Rush Limbaugh and get your head out of the sand.

Where is the union in all this? The union contracts have killed this industry. Now they want Uncle Sam - no, you and me-  to foot the bill... Government aid, says UAW president Ron Gettelfinger, is needed "so that auto companies can meet their health-care obligations to more than 780,000 retirees and dependents." Sorry but can't do!!!

Ive been in the auto industry for over 15 years now dont blame the company for is doing blame the consumer for buying forginer cars where  all different type people live here work here but buy forginer cars so why dont they move back to thier country work there and buy their cars..now the ipod would only cost us 50 dollars instead of 200.......

Pete just remember who was in office for the lst eight years. Look witin your own part for the one's who sold us out. The free economy sure is helping your friends and neighbors who lost their jobs.

none of the above responders would be saying that the big 3 shouldnt be bailed out if they had a loved one that it would affect, maybe they should look at their own companies and imagine what would happen if they shut down, and they lost their health insurance and then multiply that.

Please stop rehashing mostly fictional information that some morally handicapped news anchor has told you is the truth. We get it already, you hate American companies and all our lives would be happier if they didn't exist. Will they? I simply don’t remember such a degree of hatred for the financial institutions that caused most of your financial heart aches to begin with. But, then again, there weren't as many 7 second economist and self proclaimed experts providing matches and gasoline.

What I would really like to know is exactly what community service MSN Money, Fox News, CNN and the rest of the media are trying to fulfill this week. The message that these impartial wall street media outlets are trying to explain to me is a little foggy. Funny, $700B….mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine. If car executives made the kind of money these people steal, they would be in the islands spending bonus checks and smoking Cubans with their Wall Street Companions. They are not (in the islands or companions).

Do the big 3 need to change? You better believe it. Do the unions need to go bye bye? How fast can you say see-ya. Will they change? Absolutely, and they already have. They have more to lose than the countries economy and that is huge. In fact, with the changes underway in Detroit, if not for a global financial meltdown, (started in the USA on wall street) Detroit was well on their way to getting their house in order and most of you would have been able to continue blogging about Obama or what ever else suited your fancy. If wall street didn’t get bailed out, just how many dead bodies and other unspeakable, unforgiveable financial atrocities would come tumbling out of the pent house closet?

Ask yourself, the next time you hear a wall street news monkey (not a racial slur against monkeys) spouting fiction as fact or that blog expert discussing global world economics, what is it they are not saying. You may or may not find out what the agenda is. The guy driving his Toyota praying for the death of Detroit is probably just rooting for his home team. Let the markets self correct. I understand that got us 1929. How can something screwed up by greedy people be left to its own devises and magically get back on course. If not for greedy SOB’s to begin with, the markets wouldn’t be off course. It is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy. So let’s start a fire in another vulnerable sector and while no one is watching, we’ll run our “Massive Greed Never Happened” anti virus program and when they look at us the operating system will be booted and “High Rise” will be running again. Hit the button, hurry up and hit the button. They’ll be coming back to look at us soon.

Democrats blaming Republicans and Republicans blaming Democrats is proof enough for me that both parties should be abolished. Them versus us leaves little room for Americans. But it probably isn't about America anyway. It never stops amazing me how people can be trained to believe what they want, simply by providing regular doses of 60 second sound bites. It should make for interesting marketing research. Many of the most outspoken voices don’t have a clue what’s going on in the US auto industry outside of a blog or what someone, that knew someone, who heard from someone, that saw someone, listening to someone, watching someone on television, explain to many, why they should tell everyone, don’t listen to anyone, who doesn’t repeat what I tell to say. To think, Washington has a special interest problem. Go Figure

Below is what I didn't know as this mess began to unfold. The funny thing is I had to spend some time looking for it because I never read it on a blog or hear it on Fox or CNN. Don't muddy up and confuse the lynching with facts I guess. Yea, Yea I know it won't change your minds if you have already consumed enough media medicine, but it might make you ask what is really going on with this.

If I'm supposed to get pissed off and all worked up, I would really like to know why. Aside from some special interest (not sure what it is yet) media reason's I still don't know why? Ah, maybe one day when the wall street press stops pounding their collect chest to the tune of "Me Wall Street, You American Industrial Trash”, we might find out. Maybe not.

Myth No. 1: Nobody buys their vehicles.

REALITY: General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the world. GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far this year. Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota. Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3 million vehicles in the United States last year. Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in 2007 and so far this year. (So much for the most often used news media fiction told hour after hour, “America doesn’t buy what they make.”)

Myth No. 2: They build unreliable junk.

REALITY: The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Power Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.

(This is not what the guy rooting for his home team wants to hear. Way too far outside his comfort level. Hard to tow the media line with a real since of credibility)

Myth No. 3: They build gas-guzzlers.

REALITY: All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2 m.p.g. better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient Toyota Corolla. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic. A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact is the least expensive car to buy and operate. (Not fuel efficient...well, okay....how many mpg does that Tundra and Land Cruiser get?)

Myth No. 4: They already got a $25-billion bailout.

REALITY: None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown that's killing them now.

(Why is it that when Japan and Germany fund R&D for their auto industries it’s to create a strong industrial base, but if the US does the same thing it’s a bailout? Maybe CNN can explain that for me because I cannot put my finger on it. I guess if I’m trying to paint a landscape with dark horizons, the R&D Investment paint doesn’t work on the canvass.)

Myth No. 5: GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.

Reality: The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically profitable part of the auto industry. The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's full-size pickups.

(So go to the homes of these people and tell them face to face they were idiots for buying what they wanted and let me know how the conversation went.)

The point of all this is simple. If you feel strongly enough to take the time to voice your opinion in a faceless medium, make sure what your fighting to have heard is based on facts and not what something else wants you to believe is the truth regardless of how grossly inaccurate the data for that belief may be. They're quite often selling disaster and turmoil and all the facts are only justified when they can start the fire. Always ask why and if the answer only appears smoky, investigate the fire. The US auto industry is not a viable global business model; a wall street riddle I don’t wish to be forced to solve.

Unfortunately, we may not have a complete choice on whether to bail out our friends in Detroit because with an already staggering economy, a total collapse could lead to much more significant problems.

I'm tired of hearing all the excuses from the big three and fellow bloggers.  I'm an engineer and know what's involved in bringing a new car or technology to market.  The problem is actually very simply three things:

1. Poor management that for some reason forgot the lessons learned in the 70's regarding fuel efficient cars.  Here's a fact for ya - oil/gasoline will run out some day.  Prior to that - it's going to get very exspensive making your cars unattractive.  3 years ago I had an argument with a co-worker who LOVES her american cars.  At that time there was only one American made hybrid (Ford Escape).  My point was why?  If a normal Joe like me saw it - why did the experts in Detroit see it.

2. Greedy Unions - Of course I believe that workers should be fairly compensated.  But come on!  I was always taught that you get out what you put in - so if you sacrifice and work hard, go to school, get a degree (and pay for all that college) you should be rewarded.  But when the GM plant was here in Baltimore, there were plenty of people making more money assembling cars than the Engineers, Accountants etc. who had sacrificed.  Not to mention that you cannot sell a competitive product when your labor costs are so out of whack.  I never got it - these guys made good coin - but every time their contract came up they seemed ready to kill the golden goose.  Well that goose is on life support now.

3.  Innovation and understanding the market - Look at the features of the cars that are winning.  Tons of little things from cup holders to folding seats to all the gadgetry that we - and especially the younger generation wants.

The thoughts of losing the American companies sickens me - and I pray that we can somehow preserve this piece of Americana.  BUT if the high dollar executive weenies, and everyday auto worker do not wake up, suck it up, and do what has to be done on THEIR SIDE - we'll just have to get use to the term "Remember when.."

I'm all for helping the auto industry if not we lose to many jobs, and unimployment skyrockets then food stamps and so on and so on. But why don't we limit the CEO's to NO pay raise and no bonus. the unions also did not help them out everybody wants more, which is ok as long as you understand that more does not mean you can sell at the same price. And what about all the  average managers no payraise and the board of directors.

Are we really willing to let millions of auto supplier and related jobs ($10.00 - $15.00/hr) be lost because of a relatively few over paid UAW workers.  You are really putting the scews to the average American.   We can struccture these loans to address the over paid.   But letting them fail would stab the hard working average guy in the back.  Are we really that stupid?