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China is worse than anyone imagined

Posted Nov 07 2008, 06:36 AM by Douglas McIntyre
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There have been some minority reports from pessimists like NYU economist Nouriel Roubini which say that China's economy may be faltering as badly, if not worse, than America's. No one believes that because it is too staggering to think that something so big growing at 10% a year could ever do anything worse than cool off a bit.

But, once something makes it to the front page of The New York Times, it is true everywhere and always.

The paper says that "Just as China attained supercharged growth that astounded much of the world, it appears to be slowing more sharply and more quickly than anyone anticipated."

That is too bad because economists had hoped that China's great miracle was "decoupled" from the economy in the West. China's export base and its new position as a major consumer of goods and services would keep the economy of the world's most populated country on track.

Of course, the notion that national economies are decoupled from one another in a world which is essential operating under free trade was always hard to defend. But, it had the benefit of being hopeful and allowed people to sleep at night without worrying about a titanic global recession.

It is no longer easy to make the case that China is any better off economically than the US is. America is too big an importer of Chinese goods. China's fall might lag the one in America, but never by more than a quarter or two.

China has a treasury plump with capital from years of trade surpluses. It will have that dry powder to help it through the trouble. But, that cash may not be leaving China as it used to. Its sovereign funds may no longer be big shoppers. Worse, it may lose some of its appetite for US Treasury debt, which would make keeping a high deficit in America more expensive than it has been in decades.

Top Stocks blogger Douglas A. McIntyre is an editor at 24/7 Wall St.

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Comments

 

America, and the western world at large will have to seriously consider down-sizing their wage levels, if they are to survive this mess. Is there any logical reason why a middle class person, say in India, can live a very decent life style on under $20,000/= a YEAR, and his western counterpart needs many times that. I make about that much, I hold membership to a golf club, play 3/4 times a week. I drive an Indian make compact car, pay for gas at a much higher rate than the USA does, is 8 years old, which has never broken down, nor ever seen a repair shop. It takes me and my family reliably from A to B and back. I live in a condo of 1100 sq feet, more than enough for the 2 of us. Why does my counterpart out in the western world need a residence of 3000 sq feet? I have all the mod-cons that most US homes have. We eat out 2 or 3 times a week. So what really makes the difference ? Perhaps the viscious cycle of higher wages, resulting in higher living costs, resulting in outsourcing !! And job loss? And therefore inability to make both ends meet? It is no one's case that western living standards drop to sub-Sahara levels. But some serious moderation in wages and correspondingly prices will be absolutely necessary. Can there be any justificaton for multi-million dollar golden hand shakes, or a 1 Million $ prize money for winning a golf tournament, or the US Tennis Open? For what is essentially 20 hours of work at the "office" and amounts to $50,000/= per hour? Or in terms of golf, $3500/= per stroke? If some sponsor is putting up that kind of money, you can be sure you are going to be paying a higher price for the sponsors goods in the High Street shops. No free lunches...remember? The rampantly wild running buck has to stop somewhere.

"Collective" America has lived the high life for many years now - Pay up and live like the Third World nation of beggars you are - And the world might take pity on you. Though I doubt it because the world has learned to be as greedy as America!!!

I don't like the scenario. We owe China and in effect they own a part of our economy while all we have is plastic (literally and figuratively) to show for it. The people of china are deprived of almost everything a developed nation promises and yet we convince ourselves they will go on like this forever. When the people of China rise up again-and they will-the U.S. will be so deeply engaged and dependent on stability there that all the other things issues in the world won't matter. Money from China will be as deadly to our well-being as oil from the Middle East. Think about it. Its not a pretty picture.

is anyone going to mention the chinese-made food and goods that have been contaminated and injuring and killing people and animals?  even if many people had the money to spend on anything right now, and they dont, they would likely not be choosing to buy chinese-made products.  last year i somehow ended up with some chinese-made hand wipes (i didnt buy them i know that much) and i threw them away for fear of what was in them.  i think its over for china and their dangerous, cheaply-made products.  they tried to get one over on the world by cutting every corner imaginable to lower their costs.  i hope they (and everyone else) learns from this.  noone is entitled to these sickeningly overbloated profit margins, taken at the expense of the consumer (are you listening AIG?)

"Collective" America has lived the high life for many years now - Pay up and live like the Third World nation of beggars you are - And the world might take pity on you. Though I doubt it because the world has learned to be as greedy as America!!!

Pay your debts

this scumbag must live in Europe    i live out of dept     we americans  are so bad  i am sorry that we are the first ones to help and back up the rest of the wimpy world    

C'mon, the US is still the economic powerhouse of the world.  With everything that has happened, our currency has gained strength against every other currency in the world (with very few exceptions). Our stock market crash is less severe then that of Europe, China, Russia, Japan, etc..  Our government bailout of banks is less than one quarter then that of the extensively regulated EU banks.  Heck, our proposed auto bailout is one quarter of the EU's auto bailout.  

We have the worlds most free and competitive market.  Sure, other country's manipulate currencies, subsidize markets (EX: Asian autos), dump products and try to cheat the system in every imaginable way but that hurts them more than the US in the long run.  Let the Chinese finance us out of this mess, we could use some of their trillions of US currency right here at home.  Heck, we can get our own money back at a big discount if the Chinese aren't careful. Ask the Japanese how that worked out for them in the late 80' and early 90's.  Since every consumer good seems to be made in China, let them absorb the social cost of the massive unemployment caused when their biggest customer (the US) ain't buying.  We have already restructured to survive economically without these jobs.  The Chinese government better be careful with their monetary policy or the free market will correct them severely.  

Basically, the US$$$ has been artificially inflated against most Asian currencies.  Deflating our money with these bailouts will correct this unnatural balance.  We have asked Asian countries for fair exchange rates for decades, but the Asian exporters kept cheating the market.  Well the chicken has come home to roost.  As bad as we have it, watch for the exporters to get it worse. They are at the mercy of our own poor decisions.

As Ted Nugent says, "We suck.  We just suck a whole lot less than everybody else!"

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