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China is worse than anyone imagined

Posted Nov 07 2008, 06:36 AM by Douglas McIntyre
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There have been some minority reports from pessimists like NYU economist Nouriel Roubini which say that China's economy may be faltering as badly, if not worse, than America's. No one believes that because it is too staggering to think that something so big growing at 10% a year could ever do anything worse than cool off a bit.

But, once something makes it to the front page of The New York Times, it is true everywhere and always.

The paper says that "Just as China attained supercharged growth that astounded much of the world, it appears to be slowing more sharply and more quickly than anyone anticipated."

That is too bad because economists had hoped that China's great miracle was "decoupled" from the economy in the West. China's export base and its new position as a major consumer of goods and services would keep the economy of the world's most populated country on track.

Of course, the notion that national economies are decoupled from one another in a world which is essential operating under free trade was always hard to defend. But, it had the benefit of being hopeful and allowed people to sleep at night without worrying about a titanic global recession.

It is no longer easy to make the case that China is any better off economically than the US is. America is too big an importer of Chinese goods. China's fall might lag the one in America, but never by more than a quarter or two.

China has a treasury plump with capital from years of trade surpluses. It will have that dry powder to help it through the trouble. But, that cash may not be leaving China as it used to. Its sovereign funds may no longer be big shoppers. Worse, it may lose some of its appetite for US Treasury debt, which would make keeping a high deficit in America more expensive than it has been in decades.

Top Stocks blogger Douglas A. McIntyre is an editor at 24/7 Wall St.

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Comments

 

When looking at the big picture,of the global crisis that we stand in today,it surely

has a scary dept; in the hole we are in the market turmoil across the Globe shows

a really,really deep hole that shows no light at the end of this tunnel?? I am sure

most of us think that its going to be OK, but the reality of this hole is really dangerous,for the simple fact of Government intering this problem with AMERICAN TAX REVENUE to HELP BUY OUT A GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS IS NOW SENDING US DOWN RIVER OVER THIS WATER FALL !!!!

If the USA steps aside and lets this crisis bottom out and like the experts will tell

you,we will hit a bottom sooner than if we continue to pump the ARTIFICSAL GREED into this problem.

AMERICAS FInancial system is not equipped to handle the WORLDS MONETARY

system.

AMERICAS Financial system is based upon a LOOP system of the U.S. dollar not

a EURO system!! AS soon as AMERICA can get on her feet again and then we can help the rest of the WORLD?

AMERICA can HELP COUNTRIES not SAVE THEM!!!!!!!  

Another very important message to the readers of the Financial CRISIS.

WE AS AMERICANS CAN NOT LET THE NEW ADMINISTRATION SHUT DOWN THE COAL INDUSTRY!!!! IF THE COAL INDUSTRY IS BROUGHT TO A SHUT DOWN

DUE TO VERY EXPENSIVE FINES BECAUSE OF AIR POLLUTION, THIS SO CALLED

ENERGY PROBLEM IS GOING TO BECOME ANOTHER"" FINANCIAL CRISIS"".

COAL IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS CRUDE OIL WITH THE SAME TYPES OF POLLUTANTS!!!!

RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT THE CHINESE ARE DESPERATE FOR AMERICAS HIGH

GRADE COAL,AND THIS OBAMA ADMINISTRATION LIED ABOUT SHUTTING DOWN THE COAL INDUSTRY.WITH VERY STIFF FINES IF THERES TO MUCH POLLUTANTS!

THE REALITY OF COAL IS WE DO NOT HAVE A SUBSTATUTE FOR IT??

JUST AS CRUDE OIL HAS NO QUICK SUBSTATUTE??

IF YOU READ THIS MESSAGE---MARK MY WORDS---MANKIND DOES NOT HAVE A

WAY TO QUIT USING COAL,AND OBAMA AND COMPANY KNOWS THIS>

REMEMBER MATERIALS THAT CREATE ""ENERGY"" FOR THE SAIC OF MANKIND

ARE NOT DISPOSABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW THAT THE AMERICAN POLITICIANS (WHO VOTED FOR THE BAIL-OUT).

OBAMA AND McCAIN BOTH DID.....

WHY DIDNT WE PUMP THIS SO CALLED LOOSE CHANGE WE AMERICANS HAD LAYING AROUND INTO THE SO IMPORTANT ENERGY CRISIS.

I JUST CANT BELIEVE WE GAVE ALL THAT MONEY TO THE EDUCATED BIG WHEELS IN THE FINANCIAL MARKETS!! I THOUGHT THAT THEY NEW WHAT 1+1 EQUALS?

LETS SEE IF WE DO IT AGAIN IN THE NEAR FUTURE---AND IF WE DO, I THINK ROSS PEROT WOULD BE EXACTLY RIGHT ABOUT OUR NATIONS GOVERNMENT

A BUNCH OF CROOKS THROWEN DICE AT THE WHITE HOUSE????????

GOOD LUCK ?? AMERICANS ARE GOING TO NEED ALL THE LUCK THEY CAN GET!

Clatham: You need to take a few aspirins and lie down. Then learn about online etiquette, and how rude it is to 1) Post 3 consecutive messages; and 2) Write everything in upper case.

John M: (who suggested that import tarrifs are justified as a fee on other countries in exchange for the U.S. acting as "the world's policeman". Dude, you are seriously deluded. "Police" don't kill and torture thousands of innocent people and then steal all of their resources. U.S. motives for violence are now and always have been about money, not some b.s. about "security".

U.S. violence in places where it has no right to be in the first place is what engenders hatred and further fuels the cycle that feeds the monster known as the military-industrial complex (which is exactly what Cheney, Halliburton and their buddies want to happen: you can be sure that the financial crisis will not dent any of their billions of dollars of blood money).

First of all, I find there are large numbers of spelling mistakes and poor use of grammer on most of the post I've read so far.

I think we are seeing the hand over of economic power from the US to China and Europe. It looks as though the US is looking towards China and to a lesser extent, Europe to get it out of its financial mess. A state of affairs unthinkable just a decade ago. I think the US has been living beyond its means for many decades and have used financial sleight of hand to keep the debt ball in the air.

Its a shame that the brightest and best Americans end up in finance and law and become indoctrinated into "the greed is good"  and "we are smarter than the market" mindset instead of using their talents in more beneficial areas.  

China is a MESS. Since it is a controlled economy the full impact is being masked but that is temporary.  China is a long way from being a self-sustaining (or even major) consumer market.  Only 250 million had been lifted out of complete and utter poverty (not middle class by any stretch) and many of these have or will decline back into poverty soon.

Chinese banks, like japan in the 90s, are vastly overinvested/collateralized  in their over-inflated  domestic real estate and securities markets. Both are in the tank. China can no longer export because noone is buying; the dollar is stronger so imports cost them more; noone is investing in China because of fear of the Chinese and world economic situation; and there is a very great possibility that the US will insist on fair trade with China and impose import duties.  The rest of the world will follow.

With a declining economy, the political repression practiced by the communist regime will become increasingly intoerable and their hold on power will become more and more tenuous, leading them to divert domestic discontent by foreign excursions (Taiwan). STAY AWAY FROM ANY CHINESE INVESTMENT!!!

The scariest thing about this crisis, IMO, is that the same bunch in the gov’t that got the U.S. into this position are the ones who are trying to get us out.

First of all, huge bailouts are going to have an effect, but the problem is that bailouts will likely only delay a slide into deep recession or depression. The bailouts that are intended to free money are freezing it instead, since banks are sitting tight hoping that Federal $$$ will buy their bad debt. Meanwhile we’re hearing that some banks are using bailout money to buy other banks instead of loan it to stimulate the economy! What a mess...

Second, huge bailouts incur huge Federal debt. The trillions being flippantly borrowed will incur a huge cost (interest payments) and a precarious indebtedness to governments who are not necessarily friendly to us.

Ironically, China may use this crisis to leverage up much like the U.S. economically crushed the U.S.S.R. in the Reagan years by ratcheting up military spending. Fortunately, China needs us as a market...

If we implemented the fair tax, we would reap the benefits almost instantly.

Don't forget that China has 4 or 5 times as many people as the US. Therefore,  an increase in unemployment of 1% is actually FIVE TIMES as many people out of work as a similiar increase over here.

This makes for a harder fall, and a fix is likely slower.

There's terrific problems in the world without an easy solution. Fortunately there aren't any epic wars and destruction, there's no plague or 1918 influenza and we're all in it together. The Chinese have shown incredible patience with our consumption and have also profited from it. It is Russia that has dark thoughts and animus. Let's move forward. Hopefully Barrack stays on his game, we need him.

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