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Will this be a depression?

Posted Oct 07 2008, 11:28 AM by Anthony Mirhaydari
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Americans sure are in a gloomy mood. A recent poll finds that 60% of us believe that a full-blown depression is somewhat or very likely.

Since a depression has no official qualities (besides being worse than recession), the pollsters cited a few economic measures from the 1930s during their survey: A 25% unemployment rate, widespread bank failures, and millions of people homeless and unable to afford basic necessities. Other measures of consumer sentiment corroborate these findings.

Before you blow all this off as the irrational rumblings of an unhappy electorate, know that Wall Street's economists are starting to see a similarly dour picture. David Rosenberg of Merrill Lynch penned the following comment in a note to clients on Monday:

"It truly is a modern-day depression, in our view -- what else do you call it when an entire industry vanishes (investment banks) in less than a year; the ranks of the unemployed soared more than 30%; and nearly one in ten homeowners with a mortgage are either in arrears or foreclosure?"

While a repeat of the Great Depression isn't likely -- automatic stabilizers like welfare and unemployment insurance are in place, the government and the Federal Reserve are accommodating -- the present situation needs to be put into perspective. After the successive failures of two of the largest asset bubbles in history, our present situation is an outlier; that is, it isn't a normal cyclical downturn of the business cycle.

Morgan Stanley economist Richard Berner is looking at two "adverse feedback loops" that could pull things lower:

"Spreading weakness beyond housing to consumer and capital spending, and from a global slowdown to U.S. exports, will promote further declines in employment, in turn pressuring income, consumers, and their lenders. A second vicious circle runs from tighter credit to a weaker economy, then to a deterioration in credit quality, in turn increasing reluctance to lend."

The depth and length of this downturn now depends on the policy response out of Washington D.C. and the willingness of foreign governments and investment pools to fund the resulting budgetary deficit.

(Disclosure: I don’t control a position in any of the companies mentioned)

Related reading:

The Fed may go beyond banks, bailout businesses

So the bailout passed. Now what?

Worst crisis since Great Depression?

We didn't learn the lessons of 1907

Comments

 

remember jimmy carter and his 23% interest rates, he is the president that started this mess with loans to people with bad credit. his community development plan.

all you democrats loved bill clinton. he took jimmy carter and put it back into action. he force more bank to make more bad loans.

now all you democrats want to blame john mccain and george bush. however your savior obama is one of the biggest reasons that we have these bank failures. when he was a community organizer he had his bullies by the name acorn black mailing banks into giving out bad loans.franklin raines and jim johnson who ran fannie and freddie are working with obama in his run for president. obama and his democrats have gotten millions of dollars form fannie and freddie.

Sometimes it's hard to believe that there is a recession.  We see many people at the ball games, waterparks, out to eat  or in a casino, which costs alot of money.  

It sure seems like people have plenty of money for entertainment.  I try to save by cutting back on groceries and clipping coupons, so that we can have a little fun, but there are alot of people who just don't know how to manage money.  Also the only way the economy will get better is when gasoline prices go down, it effects everything you buy.  We need to drill for oil and find alternatives.  

Returning to the 50's style of life where your pay cash, meaning you either have it or you do not buy, may be a good thing since it teaches one fiscal restraint.

What this all boils down to is this...  Fear is what's screwing the economy right now.  This fear is being applified by mainstream media!  They are out to get their ratings and will do anything to make it happen.  It's too bad that journalism has hit an all time low.  Too many professors are forgetting to teach their journalism students how to collect credible data and report it for the listener to decide.  Nowadays most journalist exaggerate everything and "make mountains out of mole hills".  Once people "wake up" and realize that the majority of what you hear from mainstream media is a bunch of crap and only has a slight hint of truth backing it... then we will always be in a perpetual state of organized chaos.

I'm not saying there isn't a serious problem with the economy...  it is just being blown out of proportion.  It can be fixed and we can get back on track.  It just takes rolling up our sleeves and taking care of business.  

Kitty:  There are some people who default on loans because they made bad decisions, like purchasing a plasma TV when they couldn't afford it, etc.  They are few (10%?).  Most others are falling under the bus because they tried to maintain health insurance after being laid-off, got slammed with an unexpected medical or similarly necessary expense, or tried to send their kid(s) to college as they'd always dreamed.  Lately, many who saved for retirement are watching their balances decrease dramatically, and if they don't have enough to retire on, then the house payment won't be made.

I think that most of us try our best to make good decisions in direct proportion to the information we have to make that possible.  I also think that when it comes to self-responsibility, we can be perfectly self-responsible, and still have the rug pulled out from under us by someone else -- and you can't plan that.

It's our filthy rich politicians that caused all of this. I believe Pink Floyd says it all in a song "Money." Americans are so tied up in materialistic items they have to have the cadillac the fancy house. Well now there paying for it. I think it's kind of funny buy some more crap that you can't afford!

The bailout is all about protecting public employee pensions and lucrative benefits .They need the real estate taxes to protect their pensions. If you work for the government and receive those luxury benefits for life what do you expect.

Don't blame this mess on President Bush. He is a really good guy!! He spends $12 billion per month in a boondoggle that has been a farce from the get go. The buck stops with him! He is a failure as is his entire administration. He will take the blame for this as well he (and Chaney) should!!

We need to clean all of our representatives out of office.There don't seem to be anybody standing up for the middle class.Even it is disappearing.We need to vote all incumbents out next time.

I always lived within my means and now have no debt...my modest working class home is paid off.  ********  There is plenty of blame to go around...politicians from both parties, though only one has been known as the deregulation party...greedy stupid lenders...greedy stupid homebuyers...ignorant homebuyers.....just too many Americans that thought that the big guys of business will be good on the honor system WITH too many little people whooping it up on credit (debt). *************** However, we Americans are a tough bunch...and we can survive our stupidities.  We will survive.  It isn't the end of the world.  ******** I hate to say it, but this has been coming for a long time.  Some of us KNEW that houses went up in price too far too fast and that you can't just live on air (constant rising debt).  ************ Maybe now our companies won't keep oursourcing our jobs AND we the people will insist that we are able to buy more American made products.  Maybe. *********** Peace people!

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