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Will this be a depression?

Posted Oct 07 2008, 11:28 AM by Anthony Mirhaydari
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Americans sure are in a gloomy mood. A recent poll finds that 60% of us believe that a full-blown depression is somewhat or very likely.

Since a depression has no official qualities (besides being worse than recession), the pollsters cited a few economic measures from the 1930s during their survey: A 25% unemployment rate, widespread bank failures, and millions of people homeless and unable to afford basic necessities. Other measures of consumer sentiment corroborate these findings.

Before you blow all this off as the irrational rumblings of an unhappy electorate, know that Wall Street's economists are starting to see a similarly dour picture. David Rosenberg of Merrill Lynch penned the following comment in a note to clients on Monday:

"It truly is a modern-day depression, in our view -- what else do you call it when an entire industry vanishes (investment banks) in less than a year; the ranks of the unemployed soared more than 30%; and nearly one in ten homeowners with a mortgage are either in arrears or foreclosure?"

While a repeat of the Great Depression isn't likely -- automatic stabilizers like welfare and unemployment insurance are in place, the government and the Federal Reserve are accommodating -- the present situation needs to be put into perspective. After the successive failures of two of the largest asset bubbles in history, our present situation is an outlier; that is, it isn't a normal cyclical downturn of the business cycle.

Morgan Stanley economist Richard Berner is looking at two "adverse feedback loops" that could pull things lower:

"Spreading weakness beyond housing to consumer and capital spending, and from a global slowdown to U.S. exports, will promote further declines in employment, in turn pressuring income, consumers, and their lenders. A second vicious circle runs from tighter credit to a weaker economy, then to a deterioration in credit quality, in turn increasing reluctance to lend."

The depth and length of this downturn now depends on the policy response out of Washington D.C. and the willingness of foreign governments and investment pools to fund the resulting budgetary deficit.

(Disclosure: I don’t control a position in any of the companies mentioned)

Related reading:

The Fed may go beyond banks, bailout businesses

So the bailout passed. Now what?

Worst crisis since Great Depression?

We didn't learn the lessons of 1907

Comments

 

depression.. yes. .I am very.. facing a depression.. who wouldn't be finacially or mentally.. I went down 2500 just in a few days from my IRA

We've been in a recession for at least 3 years. Anyone who needs to buy groceries knows that. Now we are marching into depression. The honor system in government does not work. We all have rules to live by. Where were the rules for corporations? Eight years it's been going on. I hope all who voted for Bush are happy now. He's spent our futures and our children's futures. This is the man who wanted to privatize Social Security! Hah! Well, folks, it's back to use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without. It's called living within one's means.

Oh, so now the sky is falling.  Nobody saw this coming?  My next door neighbor was a supermarket cashier and somehow he qualified to buy a $370,000 house (which was really worth half the price he paid) with a zero down option ARM.  Needless to say, he walked away when he couldn't even meet his property tax obligation.

Not long ago, a house would go on sale around here for a ridiculously inflated price.  Not  only would people step over each other to buy it, but they commonly offered more than the asking price just to beat the other fools in the market who were out shopping for overpriced houses.

The logic (or lack thereof) was that it was okay to overextend yourself on a mortgage because, even though salaries remained the same, house prices would rise forever and you could unload your overpriced gem on another guy after a few month's worth of hefty profit.  It turns out that some of these flippers got caught holding the bag.

Now the party's over and here we are.  No, the sky's not falling, but any night of heavy drinking and overindulgence has its repercusions the next morning.  We'll get through this one too, but the sad part about all of this is that we'll never learn.

As an expat living in Spain, I am experiencing firsthand the effects of the crisis.

I teach business English for a major hotel corporation, and although they have (had) a huge buget for employee improvement training, i.e. English classes, suddenly, my class load has been cut by at least 30%.  Everyone is scared here, and we are just starting to feel the domino effects from the States.  My feeling is that no one and no business will be immune to this financial "zsunami".

Alas, as sorry as I am to say this, unfortunitly, we are slipping or rather falling into a full blown depression. Widespread bank failures, wholesale unemployment, and last but not least, a deflationary economy, that will totally wreck the economy.

I don't believe that we are facing a depression.  The joke goes that when many people are unemployed its a recession, when you have lost your job its a depression.  These are tough times, unfortunately we have already lost many of our good paying manufacturing jobs and have an ubundance of low paying service industry jobs.  For many, it has been a recession for many, many years.

Don,t blame Bush , blame the democrats for the bills extending easy credit.

What do you call it when the industry Investment Banking industry disappears?  Good, the crooks and greedy con men got what they deserved.  Multi-million dollar bonuses and salaries for fake investments.  

Please. The world is not about to end. Yes, we are experiencing some painful economic times, but guess what? That's a normal part of the economic cycle and there's no escaping that no matter what the central banker of Zimbabwe seems to think.

You want someone to blame for all this? Start with what you see when you look in the mirror. Yes, that's right: YOU are to blame. Politicians and the private sector share some of the blame, but no one forced you to take out that mortgage you can't afford, to buy that plasma TV on credit you can't pay back, or to finance that car loan for that car you just had to have, but can barely afford.

You make bad decisions? You are responsible.

We will get through this. The world has always come out of financial turmoil regardless of who is in power. And the world has always fallen back into financial turmoil regardless of who is in power. It's called life. Plan for it. If you don't make good choices? That's your problem. No one ever said life is fair.

Bobby: Both Dems and the GOP share the blame for the policies put into place that have led us here (in part).  Playing party politics just obscures this fact.

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