You can't afford it if ...

re: You can't afford it if ...

Kahi — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 13:43:14 GMT

A different Kitty - I was merely referring to Mary Ann' s remarks on an earlier post about the U.S becoming (or already?) a third world country. I reserve my own opinion/s on that.

I've traveled in Europe and I agree with your assessment in general. I have one experience though (while in London)which made me think that their health care system is far better and more people oriented than the U.S. I wear contact lenses and neglected to remove them while on flight which must have made my eyes extremely dry. In our London hotel at midnight, I suffered extreme pain that I couldn't open my eyes so my husband and I had to go out to find an emergency room where I could get treatment. I won't get into the details but the bottomline is that I got the treatment with no hassle. They immediately attended to me and gave me relief in just a matter of minutes but what was remarkable was that they never asked me to sign in first and get my medical and personal information like they do here in the US while patients agonize in pain. And when I tried to explain to them after having been treated that I am a tourist and tried to give them information about my medical coverage, etc. they told me it was not necessary and did not charge me a cent. They just made me fill up a form to indicate that I came in and was released after treatment for records/statistical purposes. If that happened anywhere in the US it would have been an entirely different scenario. My husband once had go to an emergency in a major hospital here and he was not admitted until I filled out paperwork for him and paid the co-pay which took more than half an hour because I had to fall in line and deal with a clerk who had trouble entering data on the computer because she couldn't spell my husband's last name properly!

Realiize I maybe out of topic here so my bad, won't do it again.

re: You can't afford it if ...

A different kitty — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 02:41:18 GMT

I am also a Wells Fargo customer who at one point ended up having to speak to a "real live" person because I couldn't locate the option I needed on the bank's automated system. Anyway, apparently my issue was one the automated system could have handled and I ended up getting charged 2 bucks for it (what made me more mad is that the real live person never informed me of this)

Anyway, I went to my local Wells and Fargo branch and one of the tellers there was very nice (I did not go in yelling and screaming either) and reversed the charge.

As for bailouts, Wells Fargo did not want any government money but was forced to give the government a certain amount of shares (i.e., control) in its institution (go back a few weeks in the news. It's like something out of Atlas Shrugged)

As for credit cards, regulators did pass some new rules re cc. The likely effect (in addition to less changes in interest rates, etc) will be that institutions will be less, shall we say generous, with credit once those rules take effect.

Kahi, I have not traveled to a third world country, but I have seen photos and spoken with people from what we would call third world countries. My husband was born and raised in one in fact. The US is far from becoming a third world country. The worst poverty in our nation cannot even compare to the poverty in other parts of the world. Add to that the social programs (public and private) and many of the poor here have a safety net that doesn't even exist in other countries.

I would say we are more in danger of becoming "Europeanized" in many ways (nothing wrong with the continent, nice place to visit, would never want to live there, for those who think it's the greatest place on Earth, I suggest moving there) with high taxes, stringent regulations that have a stranglehold on industry/business (and thus job creation), and a social welfare system that removes the incentive for many to work hard and get ahead on their own merits.

It is fundamental human nature that a person will not work hard if the fruits of their labor can be taken from them and given to those who did nothing to earn them.

re: You can't afford it if ...

Kahi — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 03:18:15 GMT

Kitty, The wording about potential online provider charges was indeed written in fine print below the statement/bill that I received. It was also saying that I need to contact my online provider to find out how much the fee will be. Quite frankly, after I read this note, I just decided not to bother. This is a one-time bill so I won't have to deal with it after I send my payment via mail. My husband pays our monthly utility bills through his bank and it works perfectly. I think if you have a good, and by that I mean reputable bank you won't have any problems. I have to agree with you about some people who are so reckless with their spending to the point where they max out their credit limits; ditto for people who buy more house than they can afford and go into foreclosure and buy all the luxuries that become necessities because let's face it: consumerism has consumed America! So spend, spend spend to keep up with the Joneses, or better yet, outdo them even if it means getting into debt. My philosophy is if you cannot afford to pay cash, you really cannot afford it. So, what do you do? Save for it. It maybe old fashioned but it works! Then you won't have to rely on anybody for help. History books say that America is a nation of immigrants. It became the superpower and economic giant that it was (note the past tense) by dint of their hard work. Now as Mary Anne says it's becoming or has become a third world country. Why is that? Who's to blame? What happened to the work ethic that once built this country to be the envy of the rest of the world?

re: You can't afford it if ...

kitty — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:09:46 GMT

"We are not in a RECESSION, it is a DEPRESSION!!!"

Depression = recession + deflation. We've had one quarter which showed deflation, but nothing like a deflationary cycle one would expect in a depression. Additionally, I don't seem to see bread lines anywhere... Foreclosures? Newsflash. House is not a necessity. If you bought one you couldn't afford, you really haven't ever owned it to begin with - your bank did. A flat screen TV is not a necessity either. Mary Ann, have you read about "the frugal family" of 7 that lives on 35K income, yet managed to pay off their mortgage and are doing quite fine. newsguru.newsvine.com/.../931781-frugal-family-of-seven-lives-debt-free-on-35000-a-year

Do you earn less than they do?

re: You can't afford it if ...

kitty — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:53:53 GMT

Kahi, this is the first time I heard that any online provider charges you for paying your bills. Maybe they talk about your paying for time you are online e.g. if you are using old dial-up provider or just paying for the service? Is it on your credit card bill? What is the exact wording? I think you misunderstood and what they mean is that whatever you are paying for the connection because your provider's charging you specifically for paying your bill is just plain impossible.

The reason it is impossible is security. You are logging to your bank account using a secure connection so whatever information you type is encrypted.Consequently your provider cannot see that you are paying your bills. Your provider has no way of knowing that you are paying a bill or how much. Anything else would be a serious security issue. After all your credit card info is part of the information being sent as well as your bank's info.

Another free option is autopay. I use it for my main credit card - automatic payment in full. It works great: they take the full balance of my bill directly from my checking. They normally do it on the very last day, so my money are on my account earning interest for the full grace period. Sometimes they even take the money the next day or the day after that, but I am never getting charged for anything as it is their choice. I've used it for years and it worked great.

Dawn - good point about the government. Not using cards is a perfectly good choice. Nevertheless as Kahi said not everyone who uses cards is in debt or broke or spends more than he or she has. I've used cards for years and I have no debt at all, not even a mortgage. I also have almost seven digit net worth, down from 7 digits last year (ouch...), and it's all savings - I am a first generation immigrant and I had nothing when we came to the US. This is by the way the reason I have very little sympathy for people who max out their credit cards - except for those who had legitimate emergencies like medical. If poor refugee from the Soviet Union as I was and especially as my parents were could figure out how to use crecit cards without paying any interest, how come financially savvy Americans couldn't? As to being poo, we had $120 per person when we came to the US. My parents were in their 40s and didn't even speak English. My mother couldn't find a job for 2 years. Yet we managed and we managed without getting into debt. And when my parents got their first credit card they didn't read the fine print - they couldn't read English well enough - but they did look at the table that showed no interest if you pay full balance by the due date and huge interest if you don't. This is not rocket science. Also talking about poor - Mary Ann, my cousin in Russia has a PhD in engineering. She works 2 jobs, earns $500 a month and shares a small one bedroom apartment with her elderly mother. Before her father died, he lived in the same apartment and worked until he was 80. And when my mother was young, their salary run out before the end of the month and they lived the last days of the month on bread and onions. Yet they didn't get into debt. Of course I understand legitimate emergency, like an illness. But what percentage of people who complain about credit card practices got in debt because of medical bills and how many because they overspend?

re: You can't afford it if ...

Mary Ann — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:41:50 GMT

My husband and I don't use any credit cards anymore. We max'd out but have

been paying them off. Why is Congress waiting until 2010?? People need help

now and the mortgage crisis and unemployment doesn't help at all. We are not

in a RECESSION, it is a DEPRESSION!!! We have been thru recessions but nothing

like this one. I will be very glad when GWB, Henry Paulson and maybe Ben

Bernanke take a hike. PE Obama can not fix everthing all at once and it will just

take awhile. Congress has to step up to the plate also. They give themselves bonuses like the rest of the Wall St. fat cats. This is becoming a third world

country and the enemy is laughing at us. They are smart, they are watching us.

How much more do we have to tighten our belts? Our stomachs are just about

strangled. We are afraid of a revolution. People should start rebeling and not

sit there idly. Am I right folks? I know we are.

just the rest of the Wall St. fat cats and the american people are hurting.

re: You can't afford it if ...

Kahi — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:26:20 GMT

Dawn - Thanks for your input. I use credit card to avoid carrying cash in my wallet but always pay bills in full. I've been doing this for years and have not had any problem with my credit card company - YET! I do the same things that you do to avoid all the unnecessary/ridiculous charges that we consumers incur. Unfortunately this one-time charge that I am paying is for a special offer of service that is payment deferred for one year with no interest which was charged to this particular bank. And since I pay my bills on time anyway, I went for it because there is no interest and my money can sit in my bank for one year - sounded like a win-win. Until when I tried to pay by phone that I learned there is a charge; if I pay online, the bank will not charge but my online orovider would (written in fine print on my bill). So, I guess I will send my payment by snail mail way ahead of time to make sure I don't get late payment fee and ADIOS to this company. I guess the bottomline is: CONSUMERS BEWARE!

re: You can't afford it if ...

Charlie-paylessforfood.com — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:57:57 GMT

Another factor to consider on whether or not you can afford something is not just whether or not you can afford the particular product but whether or not you can afford that product and its accessories. Every product has what I call a "product lifestyle" or the extra products and services you need to go with that product.

Consider a high definition television, for example. While the TV itself may cost $700 or $800 have you considered the installation cost that can easily run another $100 or the extended warranty that can run $50 to $200? Did you forget to add the taxes. In Chicago, sales tax is over 10% adding another $70-$80 to your purchase price.

How about the wall mounts or special cables you need to hook up a HDTV. Got a HDTV, how tempted are you to want to get the Blu-Ray video player to view high definition DVDs, or the better cable package to watch more channels on your high definition television?

Seldom is the product price itself the only cost you have to consider when making a purchase.

re: You can't afford it if ...

Dawn — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:56:55 GMT

The government is NOT going to stop the credit card companies from charging you to pay your bill over the phone or on their direct website. Why you ask because the IRS does the same thing. If you owe taxes and want to pay over the phone it is a $15.00 charge, so they will not stop this practice. What you can do to avoid the charge is set up online banking through your bank account. There is no charge for this through most banks. They prefer you do it this way it is less costly for them. The credit card companies don't charge for this either as it posts directly to your account when they receive the computer file from the bank. I pay all my bills this way to avoid the cost of the stamp, the hope that the postal service will deliver the mail in a timely fashion and the accounts payable department will process it on time. I have a friend that worked for a credit card company and they were advised in accounts payable to not process checks in a timely fashion so they could charge a late fee to the consumer. As well as raise the rates of that costomer because they had a late payment. I no longer use credit cards I only use a debit card. I choose not to purchase anything that I don't have immediate cash for.

re: You can't afford it if ...

Kahi — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:24:13 GMT

Kitty, I'm very well aware of the myriad of causes that led to the financial debacle and economic crisis that we are experiencing at present and perhaps for a very long time. I also understand the ripple effects on us and the many hard-working, overly trusting people and even the innocent bystanders when financial institutions go under. That's why I am adamant that the big fat CEOs who enrich themselves and the Bernie Madoffs of the world whose grand scale greed put people 's economic well-being and financial futures in jeopardy deserve to rot in jail.