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Here's the real deal on Dave Ramsey and debt

Posted Apr 16 2008, 09:43 AM by Karen Datko
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This post comes from partner blog The Dough Roller.

As much good as he does, Dave Ramsey drives me nuts with his extreme views on debt.

Ramsey, as he readily admits, did some really stupid things with debt. Leveraged to the hilt on bad real estate deals, he went bust in a way most of us could never imagine. As a real estate investor, my leverage and borrowing comes nowhere near the toxic level Ramsey went to.

Why? Because Ramsey's personality is one of extremes. Much like an alcoholic, he could not control his use of debt. He got one taste of that leverage, and he was borrowing before noon ever day.

Dave Ramsey is a recovering debtaholic

Now he is a recovering debtaholic. Like a recovering alcoholic, he should never borrow again. Why? He just can't handle it. Put Ramsey and debt together, and something really ugly develops.

OK, fine. But why should that apply to all of us? It's as if a recovering alcoholic were telling the rest of the world never to have a glass of wine. In other words, what works and doesn't work for Ramsey may not apply to everybody else. Of course, there are those who, like Dave, can't control debt and should avoid it just like he does.

But debt, if used wisely, can greatly improve your finances, can increase your financial freedom in the long run, and can greatly improve your balance sheet.

Own vs. lease: There's really no difference

Being debt-free does not automatically mean you've achieved financial freedom. For example, in the world of accounting, there are some intricate rules relating to how a company should account for a lease. Part of the reason for these rules is to prevent a company from appearing to improve its balance sheet when in reality it hasn't. 

For example, suppose a company owns a building and has a $1 million mortgage on the property. The mortgage is reported as a liability on the company's balance sheet. If it wanted to get that mortgage off its balance sheet, but still keep the building, it could sell the property and then lease it back from the buyer under a long-term lease. Is the company any better off? No, it has just changed the legal form of its ownership of the building. It's still obligated to pay for the building each month, but now the payment is called rent rather than a mortgage payment.

We can do the same thing renting a house or leasing a car. You may not have debt, but you do have financial obligations that require monthly payments. And you'll never own outright the thing you're paying for each month. The point is, being debt-free in and of itself won't necessarily get you the financial freedom you're looking for.

The real deal on debt

So here's the deal: Being debt-free is not the holy grail of financial freedom. My wife and I could be debt-free quite easily. We could sell our house, pay off all our debt, and have some money left over. I guess we'd then rent a house or apartment, and I would continue to go to work every day. Would we be more financially free? Nope. I suppose we could move to a less expensive area and perhaps even pay cash for a home. Would we be any more content in life? Nope. In fact, all we'd end up doing is uprooting our family and moving away from a place we love.

Now, the point here is not to run out and start borrowing. But I would suggest considering the following guidelines when it comes to borrowing money:

Avoid borrowing to buy something that's not a long-term hard asset. That means don't borrow to go on vacation or to go out to fancy restaurants or to line your closet with expensive clothes. One of the reasons we are financially free even though we have debt is that we have tangible assets behind the debt (our house, rental properties, a business) that we could sell if we wanted to and be debt-free. Once you take a vacation, you can't sell it to pay off the debt.

Keep total debt payments below 30% of your gross income. I know that for many this will be very difficult, particularly if you live in an expensive area. But I've found that if monthly debt payments exceed 30% of gross income, life gets very uncomfortable. And I should add that as you get older, this percentage should be going down. It should go down because your income should be going up, and it should also go down as you pay off debt.

Borrow wisely. We should all know by now the dangers of variable-rate mortgages. Mortgages should be 15- or 30-year fixed-rate loans. Take advantage of 0% credit card offers when it makes sense to do so. You can check out some 0% balance-transfer credit card offers and my 10 commandments on using 0% credit cards.

Don't spend today what you'll earn tomorrow. This ties into the first guideline above. The point is to control your spending, and don't let easy access to a loan send your spending out of control. There are plenty of free online budgeting tools you can use that will help you track and control your spending. Use whatever works best for you.

Dave Ramsey is entertaining, and I agree with a lot of what he preaches. If you choose to avoid debt as he does, I certainly won't tell you that's a bad decision. But I also believe that responsible borrowing can improve your finances with modest risk. So what do you think -- is Ramsey's approach to debt the right approach for everybody?

Other articles of interest at The Dough Roller:

"How to buy a refurbished iPhone"

"Dave Ramsey's Step No. 4: A visual guide to saving 15% for retirement in a Roth 401(k)"

 

"8 articles to help motivate you to improve your finances"

Comments

 

The "real deal on Dave Ramsey & debt"? Hardly. This is just your perception on how to handle debt. Dave has his ideas and you have yours. It's up to the individual to decide what approach fits best to handling personal finances. Next time, I think I would be more open if you had titled this blog differently and if you didn't put yourself on a pedestal shaking your finger at Dave.

Kirk, the $50 limit was recently lifted.  Debit cards now carry the same zero liability protection that credit cards have.

I agree with you that responsible borrowing can enhance your financial status. A very simple example of this is when you finance a education. I don't mean that you should finance a $200k BA in music at John Doe college but, $20 to $30k for a degree in a field of high demand with a high entry-level salary is responsible. Financing cars is unreasonable is almost every situation but, I wouldn't go as far as Dave Ramsey to say that it is NEVER needed. Neither would I agree with him that bankruptcy is never needed. After all, didn't he file bankruptcy?

I done my own debt payoff, highest interest to lowest interest about 8 years ago, then built a new home and signed up for more debt.  Just heard of Dave Ramsey 3 months ago and I agree with his debt snowball, the successes of having one fewer creditor every few months is big.

Also the 0% or low APR transfers are dangerous.  I did a 3.9% transfer 3 years ago and was OK, but if I was late on any other payment which showed up on my credit report the low APR would go away and I'd have been in the 25%+ club for interest rate.

This author attempts to debunk Ramsey, but ends up agreeing with the whole premise of Dave's when you read the last "guidline": Don't spend what you'll earn tomarrow.

Now doesnt that sound like... STAY OUT OF DEBT... Dave just puts the "PERIOD" on the end of the sentence... If you pay with the snakes of debt, your gonna get bit..

This is for David H. if he is still reading this blog - dude get a clue.  You bash a guy who has helped hundreds of thousands of people regain control of their finances by saying that he is a wolf in sheeps clothing and a hypocrate because he makes you pay for what he teaches?  Tell you what, if your so smart, why don't you start teaching everyone about money and how "good" debt can help you become financially free and then do it for nothing - let's see how long you last before your time and knowledge becomes worth something to you; and if you're going to run a business and give your product away for nothing apparently you aren't very business savvy either.  Now, as far as saying that all of us following Dave Ramsey's advice calling him the Messiah, know this, there is only one true Lord and Savior and anyone who listens to Dave hears him profess every day that there is "only one way to true peace and that is to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus".  I guess for a smart man, you just don't seem that smart to me.

I agree with Dave, what he says and stands for is good advice to the American people.  Just think if we all had the same mindset that we do not go into dept what would the deficit be in our personal finances and Government?  Growing up credit cards and loans was a misconception that you needed to have as an adult, what a lie.  If we saved our money instead of borrowing what kind of society would we have in this day and age?  There is really no situation that warrants borrowing money, with proper planning there is no need.  Borrowing for the average Joe is just poor planning and lack of prospective and knowledge.  Dave's theology is a #1, just think What kind of character would that instill into a person?  My guess is more of what America needs today.  Go Dave Ramsey!

This is a follow up to my previous post for Dave H:  To answer your hypocryphal accusations:

1) Just so you're aware, the advice he gives on his radio talk show is free, yes he sells his products on his website but HE IS RUNNING A BUSINESS!  Yes, we did pay $100 for his course through our church but it was not in lieu of sunday school, it was in the evening on a Wednesday night and NO our church did not receive a kickback for putting on his course.  Believe me when I tell you that he is not like the money changers and tax collectors that the new testament talks about - our church sought out his program not the other way around!

2) It's obvious that you haven't listened long enough to his show or even looked at his website to give him or his methods a fair shake - he doesn't just deal with christians, he deals with people.  If you are not a christian he doesn't hold it against you but gives you the same advice even if your not...that's what a christian does...helps people...not for the rewards or recognition...he does it because he is a christian.

3) Dave's market isn't just for churches, if you'd actually take the time to read a little bit further than the disclaimer you'd realize that he's partnered with the military to help out Soldier, Airmen, Sailors and Marines and their families, he also has a business forum for business owners.  He even has a school curricullum that has been accredited by the board of education as a credit for "accounting"  in order to meet high school graduation criteria.

You want to talk about picking out bits and pieces and applying it to certain parts of your arguement, you just pretty much lumped your self in with that hypocraphal statement you threw at Dave and all of his Sheep like followers.  Bottom line, I feel bad for you, that you just can't be happy for all of us that have found something that has helped us out.  You obviously have your own issues that preclude you from enjoying anyone elses happiness; and that goes for the rest of you who want to "bash Dave"

I would prefer to listen to Dave Ramsey's advice than your own.  30% of your income = debt.  Not a good idea.

30% of income = projected debt.  wow!! I think we have all realised that is a lose lose situation.

Maybe you need to sign up for FPU.

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