Everyone has to make a profit and nobody wants to work for free. But i feel that the worst dealers are Harley dealers. I used to manage two different dealers and I cant tell you how many customers got screwed over. When there was a big demand for bikes in the late 90's the dealers would mark all new bikes as sold, so when you wanted a certain model they would tell you that they were all sold and then say that they have a used one in the same model. So they would talk you into buying the used one then have you order a new one that would be in in 9 to 12 months and tell you that they would give you a great trade in for yours.......B__LLS____T. They would then call you about three to four months later and tell you that they have the model you want now because they had someone back out, its not the color you want but its either this one or wait anothe six to nine months. So you say o.k. and buy it.

They would make $3,000 off of the used one they sold you then turn around and make another $3,000 on the new one. Not a bad profit, $6,000 in a three month period.

And dont forget the leather jacket for the new bike. As an employee for the dealership I would pay 5% over cost plus taxes for clothing. My one jacket retailed for $500.00 after my 5% and taxes the jacket cost me $217.00, thats a $283 profit on one jacket. Thats enough to pay for a weeks salary for the girl standing behind the counter in the clothing section.

You want to see some rich people look at the Harley dealers.

GIVE THE DEALER A BREAK - Anyone who thinks they know ALL ABOUT the car business and the art of buying a car need to get a grip on what they think they know. These so called experts who enter the cat market once every 4 or 5 years are dealeing with operations that handle hundreds of shoppers a day, week or month depending on the size and volume of the store. Fact is the Dealers are better prepared to sell than the average consumer is prepared to buy.

Fact is the business of selling cars has shifted from the Dealers Control over to the Manufactures Ccontrol.  Every Car Manufacture today has wormed thier way into the operations of a Dealers business which includes Sales, Service and Parts. Anyone who does not believe this is in for a rude awakening.

The Manufactures today dictate that all Dealers build  Cookie Cutter Dealerships. They now mandate that all of thier Dealerships selling thier Products WILL look the same NO matter what state your in. The Manufactures refer to this as Brand awareness kinda like K-MART stores all look like K-MART stores.  

The Manufactures control what a dealer sells and how many of any individual model they will be allowed to sell.  Slow moving vehicles are packaged with HOT selling models ALL the time to keep the assembly lines moving.  Deep discounts on the slow moving vehicles ofen erode what HOME RUN profits were made on the HOT product.

The Manufactures are all guilty of price fixing.  They require the dealers to participate in Nationally Advertised Programs offered to the public in the form of Rebates, Low Interest Rates, HA HA or Sspecial Lease Payment Programs.  

Cash buyers are long gone from the New Car Mmarket.  To  Finace a New Car is also falling by the way side.  It appears that most consumers have already bought into the fact that the only way they are going to DRIVE a NEW CAR is to Lease it.  How long did it take to bury the idea of buying a car to own?  You know, buy a car, put some money down, make some payment and in three years, on average, it was all yours.  Not any more.  The PRICE of NEW CARS has made that a dream and the reality today is, as long as your credit is GOOD, you can Rent Them Now up to 5 to 6 years then simply walk away, with nothing! What a great deal. What ever happened to pride in ownership.

So the Market shifted and with all the lease cars there came a BIG vacume in the Used Car Market.  NO TRADES.  After all, most of you now are just renting it and it usally belonged to the  Manufactures Finance Company.  That process drove Used Car Prices through the roof.  Why, will the manufactures made it impossible for the dealer to purchase the lease vehicles.  It required all of the dealers to buy these vehicles back at Auctions for HIghly Inflated Prices.

Why auctions? Well image 30 or 40 Used Car Hungry Dealers from all over the United States put in a lane with ONE car and watch the purchase price fly.  A WIN WIN for the Manufacture and a LOSE LOSE for the dealer and down to the consumer who must pay more for the inflated cost.  What rubs salt in the already growing wound is that Used Car prices for Late Model Vehicles has been so inflated, usually above normal depreciation that now the Dealers have programs offered to them from the Manufactures to LEASE these Used Cars.  And cycle goes on and on.

If you want to know how bad it become LOOK at what is going on in the BACK END of the dealerships.  You know, service and parts. Well the Manufacture has inserted themselves there too. They hold the dealer ranson with CASH Incentives to assure that thier customers are 100% satified with how the dealer is taking care of business.  Buzz word in the industry.  Whats your CSI?  That is, your Customer Satisfaction Index.  It can add up to some serious incentive money to the dealer. But to deliver it comes at a cost which past onto the consumer.  To take care of business you have to work out of the envelope, you need the best, management, advisors and technitions.  No, they don't call them Mechanics anymore, they are now Technitions for good reason.  The COST to the dealer to train a certified and Factory trained Managers, Advisors and Technitions, which is required and if multiplyed by the number of repairs and the size of the shop, the cost and turnover is astronomical.  A cost which relates into the $100.00 plus per hour Labor Rates that are in effect in todays service departments. With this type of labor cost, an oil change that takes all day at most dealerships for under $20.00 usalkly cost the dealer $40.00 or more to complete.  But that is all refered to by the manufacture as a LOSS LEADER to increase service and parts sales.  

The real problem facing the dealers today in service is that the manufactures are hiding behind the fact that they are all building sub standard products.  They talk alot about Quality Products but by the sheer number of warranty repairs that jamb most dealerships today, it's hard to believe thier claims.  

Because product quality is so bad  most dealerships today have become swamped with performing warranty repairs in their service departments..  The number of Warranty Repairs has pushed, " Customer Pay Work", that is regular maintance service, out of the service department.  And just where did all this Customer Pay work go? Well, it is now being performed at all those QUICK Service Centers.  They are all located around dealerships and they are there to take advantage of the Dealers inability to handle this area of service.  

I see that as a problem becasue you now have the least trained and unexperanced individuals providing this maintance service on your vehicle. Too much of a good thing?  The number of these Quickie Service Centers and the shortage of labor they have caused has forced the poor old corner gas stations to get out of the service business.  You will now see service stations that sell food and drinks out of what was thier service bays.  Additional income for thier business beside selling gas. Less headaches dealing with service customers who are never happy when thier car is not running.

The Manufactures also contol the cost and amount of parts that the dealers are required to purchase each year as they roll out thier new and improved models each year.  This cost alone drives the fixed operating cost of any dealership to the near breaking point.  All those parts are paid for in cash. Some dealerships have part inventories exceeding a million dollars or more.    

Salespersons.  Can not call them just salesmen anymore due to the amount of ladiy salspersons who are on the showroom floors today.  Do not be quick to point your finger at these poor guys and gals who just by the luck of the draw win you as an UP when you walk into any showroom today.  Chances are he or she are on salary or are woring on a draw against future income.  THe days of making BIG money selling cars has long passed.    

The ability for salespeople today to make a decent living selliing cars is very poor.    Turnover in the sales department is at an all time high.  Most if not all good salespeople who took pride in the products they sold and took care of thier customers  have moved onto other industries.  So don't be suprised at the low calaber of saleperson that is available today in most showrooms.  And chances are if you shoould return to purchase another vehicle, your salesperson will be long gone.

The Fact is that most if not all manufactures have stepped in and now offer incentive payments direct to the salesmen for selling one or more of thier cars.  It has reached the point that you have to wonder just who the salesperson is woring fortoday, the dealer or the manufacture?

It should come as no suprise, and it has been tried in the past, that the Manufactures really want control of it all.  They all are on thier way to achiving that goal.  They now control all the manufacturing and have made inroads to all aspects of controlling the retail sales part of the business.  It really all boils down to a simple changing of the guard.  The manufactures want to replace the individual dealer, who today is an idependant owner/operator with one of thier own managers and I view that as just a changing of the guard.  I cannot see any good that come from that type of takeover.  Total control of a business from cradle to grave has never proved good for the economy or for the consumer as a matter of fact.

Maybe I have a jaded view of the manufactures roll in todays retail auto business.  But my entire family, father, brothers and sister were dealers starting with my dad becoming a car dealer in 1957.  Thankfully none of us were Oldsmobile Dealers, poor guys. I personally got out of the car business in 2005.  

I now find myself being on the outside looking back in at the retail car business my whole family grew with.  Unfortunetly,  I can only sudder at the thought of what is waiting for the consumer in todays car market. I could go and on and give you all sort of facts and figures but that would just bore you. As it is I have typed too long and I doubt anyone will read this anyway.  

This whole debate can go either way, it all depends on the market. For the most part it's a buyer market, there is no reason that every consumer can not educate themselves on the price and value of the vehicles they intend to purchase. I work for a large dealership in Canada, we make money like any other business. These so called "screw jobs" do not happen at reputable dealerships, they happen at the small used car dealer where the consumer knows the avg price of the vehicle is $12,000 but wait here is Jack's Used Cars and he is selling it for only $10,000 chances are there's a reason for that. He could be hiding lots of details and he does not have the capacity or guarantee to assist you down the road if any problems do occur. Instead the consumer bargains with the reputable dealership till there is base profit. The cost of a customer will only be realized over a large period of time. I can say from experience that half the deals that are made end up costing the dealership more then they took in on the deal. We are the largest dealer in our city and we do not make these supposed millions, its a business like all others. You the consumer has all the advantage, you have selection you can withdraw your contract at anytime before delivery, you can go where ever you want, deal with whoever you want, and buy whatever you want. We have strict guidelines and policies that have to be followed otherwise we get fined. This notion that the big bad dealership and sleazy salespeople are only there to steal from you, rob you of your trade value is ludicrous. All the work salespeople do is in good faith, we are only paid on commission. If you the consumer gets screwed because you chose to go to a small dealership that's prices are lower then market value, where the vehicle isn't all its cracked up to be and you didn't do your research, well to bad you deserve it!

PJ Cook...i'm sure if the manufacturers were so in control of everything like you seem to think, they would not be bilions of dollars in the hole and losing more every day.

Why even bother with the salesmen hemorrhoids?  They all make my skin crawl, not because they're crooks, but because their such amateurs in the land of crookdom.

I stopped dealing with car salespeople years ago, when one young woman, too clever by half, "lost" my driver's license for four long hours while she tried to get me to budge.  That was the last straw.

After that, and for the past three vehicles, I've used the services of Carsdirect.com; and there are other firms that offer what they do: no haggling, comparatively low prices, the largest available inventory (they use a network of dealers), convenience... the list is long.  And, you'll have the satisfaction, when you do go to a dealer to retrieve your new car, of waving away the herd of cockroaches that think they've got another mark.

Sublime.

RV

If the car dealerships have their hands out wanting in on the bail-outs from the government, then they should be agreeable  to having  closer scrutiny and accountability . As it is now, they can say or do whatever they like, with no consequences. They have no one but themselves to blame for the failure of the US automakers. Any moron even half awake for the past three decades could clearly see that the Japanese automakers were researching and developing a far superior product, with gas consumption and mileage in mind. The Americans should have been doing the same, and chose not to. They should not have gotten one dime of Americans hard earned money.  

when they tell you yes ,your credit card passed for $5000,and a week later your bank sends you a letter that you charged ,more than you have,then you have to pay a penalty fee(over draft) to your bank for the difference,isn't that right "Nissan", or the trade in that they mechanically messed up,on the computer dash board is really wrong ! Then you have to call  beuaru of auto repair  in sacramento !